What Do YOU Think...?

[MotelPrisoner]

Hello Streakers!

Welcome to our friendly debate thread. Here we will debate various subjects and current events. Please feel free to state your opinion; no one will flame you, be rude to you or do anything to cause hard feelings here. I thought it might be fun to get to know our members just a little bit better and share opinions amongst ourselves.

I reralize that some of the subjects will cause people to have strong reactions. Please post as you would like others to post to you. No name calling, rudeness, flaming, etc.

So let's get started with our first topic:

The War on Drugs...

Is it lost already? Do the billions of dollars spent on TV, magazine and newspaper ads really keep anyone from experimenting with drugs? Should recreational drugs be legalized? Do you think drug penalties are too stiff? How would you suggest we keep our kids from trying drugs? Do rehabs really work? Is addiction actually an illness or lack of will power or something else?

OK....SOUND OFF Streakers!!!

 

[labell]

oooh neat, a debate thread!

I've grown more libertarian in my views on this. I think we have to many laws, too many codes and the gov't has too much control. I think if it's made legal it will accomplish several things, first it won't be as attractive to many who like the thrill of the illegal. Secondly it would remove the black market profits and stop the criminals from becoming millionaires with it. Thirdly it would save the gov't money on both enforcement and imprisonment. I would leave some legislation in tact - driving while under the influence etc.

And addiction is very real and very very physical and emotional. But that doesn't mean the state should have a finger in it.... you simply can't legislate morality.

As for kids and keeping them off it, isn't it really like everything else we parents have to teach them? Don't touch the hot stove, don't step on glass... it will hurt you.

 

[MotelPrisoner]

Thanks, Labell. I absolutely agree the Gov. has too much control over nearly everything!

 

[weesie]

Well, they do need to do something.

It is so hard to get an rx for pain meds, it's ridiculous. A few yeas back, I had sciatica so bad I could hardly walk. I was on morphine 90 mg a day. But, I live in a city of 75,000 to 80,000 people and I had to go to a pain clinic an hours drive away. Local docs think you are just out to get pills.

I had lumbar spine surgery after about 2 yrs of severe pain and was off the meds after another 2 months. But, NOOOOO, I was looking for drugs!

Another thing is they want you to take tylenol and motrin, advil, aleve...... all of those over the counter pain meds. THEY cause kidney and liver damage. I have a damaged kidney to prove it. Drugs like morphine may be addictive but taken correctly, they won't kill you.

The criminals make it damn near impossible for people who truly need the meds to get them.

weesie

 

[judyb57]

Legalize drugs? Marijuana? Cocaine, Meth???? Where to you draw the line then. There is so much crime already due to drug use. People holding up pharmacy to get "legal" drugs already. People stealing and killing to get money for drugs to get that high, people high and doing other crimes............... The list goes on and on. Legalize any of it? HELL NO!

 

[Silkprint]

Most people get mad at me for my stance on pot .
I hate it ...I know people who are VERY addcited and get ugly when they run out ..just like any other drug in the world ...it IS a drug .
It smells so bad
so if it is legal can you smoke and drive ? what if there are kids in the car? cant someone put it out and say I smoked earlier and the smell is just lingering ? we have enough problems with the drunk drivers .
JMHO and all that

 

[labell]

The criminals make it damn near impossible for people who truly need the meds to get them.

So sad and so true. Even our Sudafed has special buying procedures now because of the idiots who make meth...

I say give the addicts an island - like a leper colony - and let them have at it... or maybe one of the less popular states? lol

 

[MotelPrisoner]

Personally, I group pot and alcohol together. Both drugs. As with anything else; moderation is the key. If you taxed the hell out of it (much like cigarettes) people would still buy it. I respect your opinion, Silky...but some people are just idiots. They would still drive with their kids in the car; just like drunks do...so that's not a valid reason not to legalize it.

Prohibition didn't work; if you know the history behind that. All that did was make moonshiners and mobsters rich. Just like the corner drug dealers are richer than you or I could ever hope to be legally. People steal for the things they want and can't afford; not just drugs.

The prisons are over populated mainly because of drugs. Ninety percent of female prisoners are in jail because of drugs. Non violent offenders are being set free everyday because of over crowding. If we don't legalize it; where do we put all of these offenders? Build more jails? Not in MY back yard, to quote George Carlin. What about all the money us tax payers put out to house, clothe & feed all these offenders? Are you ok with that? I don't have the answers to my own questions; but I know putting addicts in jail isn't doing anything at all to solve the problem.

Rehabs are for the rich or insured. What if you aren't either? Not to mention they don't work unless the addict REALLY wants it to. Most addicts can't see beyond the next high; let alone plan the rest of their lives. It's just a very unrealistic scenario.

Weesie, I totally agree with you. I have suffered for 9 years with Rhuematoid Arthritis. (A very painful, non curable disease that causes your own immune system to attack and destroy every joint in your body.) I can count on 1 hand how many times I have been given strong enough pain killers to help me just get out of bed in the morning. I live in a small town on the outskirts of Camden, NJ. At one time Camden was the murder capital of the entire USA. It is a very dangerous place filled with drug dealers, prostitution, rapists, etc. There are so many junkies living there, the NJ State Medical Board has passed laws as to how much, how often and what kind of narcotics each doctor in NJ can prescribe in one year. So, I continually suffer because of where I live. Sometimes I have been in so much pain, I have contemplated suicide. There is just no answer for me, other than to move to a less populated state where the drug problem is less prevalent.

What's the answer? I surely do not know. I do however, know that what we are doing now isn't working.

 

[iustin78]

i have really seen bad cases of people addicted to legal drugs,some kind of chemical substance,not like marijuana or cocaine,but with the same effects that causes addiction,here in Romania are some shops , like in Netherlands called Spice Shops where you can buy them if you are 18 years old , the bad part is that more and more of these Spice Shops are near to schools,recently the government worked on some laws to complete ban these kind of drugs, here we called them "etnobotanice".Well i'm against drugs of any kind.I'm a cig smoker,and it's right if the prices goes higher people still buy,here a pack is around 5 dollars as Romania enter the UE in 2007 but i remember when about 3 years ago i was buying a pack with just 1 dollar,and about these chemical substances legalized a little pack of that poison is less than that,it's like 3-4 dollars.Lol

 

[judyb57]

Hi Justin!! Hope all is well with you. Thank you for your input, it is nice to hear about other countries and how they deal with the same problems we have here in the US!

 

[vixen777]

I think I am too tired to think!

 

[judyb57]

I think I am too tired to think!

 

[missmichelle]

I say legalize it. I just can't imagine that if they do people are going to run out and buy some drugs just because it is legalized. It's a fact people who want to do them will do them no matter what. Pisses me off to no end that we here in AZ voted to legalize pot for medical reasons and then everyone was told if they did it they would be arrested. I have watched people who had cancer use it and it made things a little better for them. What right do we have to keep that from them? As far as the driving while under the influence of anything, I don't think anything will change, either people are going to act responsible or they will risk everything but they would do that while drinking or doing the illegal drugs.

I know right after the Anna Nicole Smith disaster, Phil started having a hard time getting his pains meds. He has been on them since 1992 and he is a big man so he gets quite a large quantity. All of a sudden after she died his doctor of 5 years started getting nervous. The head dr. of the clinic had to take him on as a patient so he would be able to continue getting his meds. His dr. has even talked about increasing them for him since things are getting worse for him. I have control of his pain meds and he doesn't overdo it. He doesn't try to get rid of the pain fully, he just wants to be able to survive it. MP you are right about it getting so bad that you think of just ending it. Being in constant pain can really take it's toll on you.

Now coming at it from a different perspective, I have four girls. Two of them are 23 and 24. They grew up in a home where we didn't drink or do drugs. We are a very close family and have always been here for our girls. My older girls have gotten involved in some pretty crappy stuff. They had no problem getting just about anything. One of them had a boyfriend who happily fed her drugs to control her. My younger girls 14 and 10 are so disappointed in their older sisters. I can't for the life of me see where it went so wrong. I guess I am rambling here but it is something that I am unfortunately very famiiar with. Another thing they do here in Az is let rapists run free because the jails are overcrowded just so they can lock some guy up who smoke a joint. Who would you rather have as a neighbor? I know I'd much rather have a guy who smokes a joint and leaves my family alone.

Sorry I really didn't mean to write a darn book here. Phil and I talk about this quite a bit. I don't know the exact answer but there has got to be something better than this. For all of you that suffer from constant pain, my thoughts and prayers go out to you.

 

[missmichelle]

I know one thing I like is that we can talk about things here and everyone may not agree but we can be respectful of one another. I also like to look at how others view things and sometimes I even change my mind when things are pointed out by someone else.

 

[judyb57]

I agree missmichelle. MotelPrisoner had a wonderful idea for this!!!! A lot of times people get into arguments on here when they disagree. This way we all can give our opinions and discuss it without arguing!


THANK YOU MP!!

 

[MotelPrisoner]

Absolutely my pleasure! I have always wanted to do this. I like to hear what other people think.

Michelle, you can write a book anytime you want! I tend to get a little long winded myself when I really care about something. Hope Phil is doing well; give him a big hug for me.

I'm gonna reply to your post after I go get my pizza. LOL!

 

[MotelPrisoner]

OOPS! I guess I had to wait a LONG time for that pizza, Michelle. So sorry I just plain forgot about this thread.

NEW TOPIC !!!

What do you think about parents who purposly harm their children? Should the Government be allowed to impose a sentence of forced sterility on people who kill their children? What if they abuse the child; but no death incurs? Should they be forced to take birth control until they have shown they can be loving, caring parents? Should women addicts be forced to take birth control? Should the Government have ANY say in this matter?

I can't help thinking of the recent news stories I have seen regarding missing children found dead at their parents hands. (ie. the man who threw his 2 yr old off a bridge; while she was still strapped in her car seat, and she died because she landed in a small body of water.) How about Susan Smith? Diane Downs? China Arnold, who microwaved her baby to death after a bitter arguement over the child's paternity?

What do you do with these people? Personally I don't think life imprisonment is the answer. Waste of tax payers money, I think. I personally think, if you kill your child (and you don't have a mental defect) you should get the death penalty. Microwaving a baby? IMMEDIATE death penalty! No appeals that drag on for decades. Kill a kid because you wanted a man who didn't want your kids? Same punishment!

I am sympathetic to those who have mental illness. I just think there should be better ways to intercept these parent BEFORE they kill their child.

So, tell me....what do YOU think?

 

[Silkprint]

Agreed -crimes against children should be death -PERIOD

 

[MotelPrisoner]

I can't agree with the totality of your statement, Silky. There has to be some leeway.

You have to factor in mental illness, accidents and other extenuating circumstances.

For example: Andrea Yates...who told police and psychiatrists after the crime that Satan ordered her to kill sons Noah, 7; John, 5; Paul, 3; Luke, 2; and 6-month-old daughter Mary, to save them from eternal damnation. She suffered from mental illness for years -- depression with bouts of psychosis, suicide attempts and hospitalizations.

Yates was convicted of capital murder in March 2002, rejecting the defense argument that she was insane at the time of the killings. But in 2006, Yates was retried and found not guilty by reason of insanity and was committed to a state mental hospital.

I have sympathy for this woman. Obviously the system failed her. Her husband failed her. Why would he keep having children with a mentally unbalanced woman? Did he think more kids would be beneficial? Was his sexual drive more important than her mental health? Just judging from the names of her children; I can see she was a devout Christian, even bording on fanatical. She thought she was failing her children and she deserved punishment. She had psychotic breaks, where she saw and heard satan. She refused to take medication prescribed for her. She was hospitalized on numerous occasions. This lady was seriously unbalanced.

Do I think she should die for her crimes? No, I don't.

There will always be at least one exception to the rule, and I am sure there are other cases like Andrea Yates.

 

[ashtok119]

first let me say how sick i am of hearing about small children, especially babies, being found killed by their parents. having a 1 year old myself, it makes me absolutely sick.. about a month ago here a 1 year old went missing, and later in the day was found dumped in a park about 5 miles from my house. a few hours later they announced that his mother confessed to being the one who dumped him there. he died from blunt force trauma to the head, she beat him to death, and she claimed the reason why was because he woke her up too early and he wouldn't go back to sleep.. her friends and family kept saying over and over she was the best mother ever, she would never hurt him, etc. she actually went to a catholic school with my cousins. they also say drugs might have been involved and that she just snapped, but i think there definetly has to be something wrong mentally to be able to do that to your child and have absolutely no remorse. she was even smiling and laughing with an officer the next morning when she reported him 'missing'.

i personally think death is kind of an easy way out for these people. like this girl, she is going to go to prison and get the crap beat out of her constantly for years, and i think she deserves it. she deserves to suffer and live with what she did every day.